Christmas tree-ness

[Capntrips]

I'd still love to hear some takes on this NEW ethical dilemma I've run into (WHY do I keep encountering these damn things??? Oh yeah, I'm neurotic..duh). Since there are so many more of us on the planet, of course, that means more cutting of live trees for the holiday. What does that mean to the environment? Trees=oxygen. Isn't that kinda....wasteful? On the other hand, fake trees are manufactured from plastic, and that wreaks havoc on the environment (and eventually our health as well, as I understand it--factory fumes, etc). Any solutions/thoughts? Thanks, guys!:wacko:

[YouMeUs]

Keep in mind that trees are a renewable resource. Your local department of agriculture can probably provide you with a list of Christmas tree farms in your area. For every tree they cut down, they’ll plant another one because they want to sell you a tree again next year and the year after. Now, someone who goes into the woods and just hacks trees down is a different matter and I wouldn’t support them. Make sure you buy your tree from a reputable, responsible grower. Ethical dilemma solved.

This is also one of the reasons you shouldn’t recycle paper. Ahhh… now we’re gonna stir things up here!

Paper companies own hundreds of thousands of acres on which they plant trees. When they cut down the trees on that land, they plant more trees because they want to continue selling you paper in the future. A pretty basic good business decision. No, they’re not cutting down the rainforest or all the redwoods in California to make your USA Today. Those are hardwoods and that’s a different story. Hard woods. Good for lumber, bad for paper. Almost all paper is made from softwoods because they are more easily and cheaply made into pulp. There’s a paper mill near my hometown. It’s surrounded by hundreds of acres of pines planted as densely as possible. And they’ve been growing, cutting, and replanting pines on that land since before I was born. Renewable resource.

On top of that, the paper recycling process (which includes bleaching out the ink and generating a disgusting sludge that has to be disposed of somewhere) uses more energy and generates more pollution than making new paper from wood pulp. And in every instance I’ve ever seen, recycled paper is at least slightly inferior and in some cases drastically inferior to new paper.

What about landfill space? Paper biodegrades quickly. I’ve covered my flowerbeds with cardboard in the fall and by spring I could run a hoe over it and work it into the dirt. Cardboard. Gone. Returned to the earth. In less than one year.

So what’s the benefit of recycling paper? There’s only one. It makes people who’ve bought into the lie feel good. They feel like they’re doing something that’s good for the environment. And as long as they refuse to accept the fact that what they’re doing actually runs counter to their intentions, they can continue to feel good about themselves. And hey, there’s nothing wrong with feeling good about yourself. As for me, I’ll shed a tear for the poor misguided tree-huggers. And I’ll wipe it with a big ol’ 2-ply paper towel.

PS: Hey Adrienne, remember when I told you I was going to post something inflammatory? :wink:

[YouMeUs]

Regarding the initial issue of Christmas trees, for city dwellers there’s always the issue of what to do with the damn thing post-holidays. Here in Nashville the parks department sets up “tree recycling” stations at several local parks. You can take your tree there and they’ll turn it into mulch to be used in the park. As Nashville isn’t exactly the most progressive city on earth, I expect most reasonably large cities should have a similar program. Check for your parks department or ag department web site.

[Capntrips]

LOL...well, thanky for the enlightenment, YMU! Good to know there is hope for the trees--me being a tree-hugger and all...:wink:. Sounds pretty ethical to me....and recycled paper is THAT sucky? Admittedly never knew that. So what's your take then on the manufacturing of plastic trees? And how about the recycling of cans/plastic goods? And toilet paper, for that matter....although the more I contemplate that....man, that's gross! Eeeeeick...:wacko:

[faegirl]

I solved the whole christmas tree problem by buying a small tree in a pot. Its just big enough for decorations and to provide some greenery in the house, but its small enough that I can carry it around in my arms like a kid.

And, I'll have christmas all year long now :biggrin:

[YouMeUs]

Well, since ya’ asked… :wink: There are some good arguments to be made for recycling plastic. It’s a petroleum-based product (bad) and does not break down quickly in a landfill (also bad). But again there’s the issue of how much energy it takes and how much pollution is generated by the recycling process. Yes, it takes more energy to recycle a plastic bottle than it does to make a new one and you end up with a lower-quality product. Since different plastics have to be handled in different ways, someone has to sort them (most likely paid for by the $8 billion annual federal subsidy for recycling) then they have to be washed before recycling begins. Then consider that curbside recycling requires a second truck, not just the one that picks up your garbage, to come to your house. Twice the fuel consumption, twice the pollution. As you might guess by now, I also do not recycle plastic.

Some of the same arguments can be made for glass. At least it’s not a petroleum product, but sorting, washing, more energy consumption, more pollution, all those arguments apply here too.

The one thing that DOES recycle efficiently is aluminum. It’s cheaper and more energy-efficient to recycle aluminum than it is to mine bauxite to make new aluminum. That’s why Alcoa and many other companies will pay good money for your scrap aluminum. When it makes sense to recycle paper or plastic, someone somewhere will be willing to pay for your waste paper and plastic.

Now, go back up to that dollar sign and think about this. That’s eight billion a year of your money to subsidize the recycling industry. How many teachers, firefighters, health inspectors, etc. could you hire with that kind of money? General Motors is having some financial troubles. How about if the feds just hand them 8 billion of your dollars to prop up a business that can’t support itself? Yes, there are roundabout ways of doing that, tax breaks and whatnot, that GM is getting, but we’re talking here about another industry that cannot support itself so the federal government GIVES IT EIGHT BILLION FREAKIN’ DOLLARS A YEAR. Of course we also spend something like 300 billion paying farmers to grow crops for which there is little or no demand, but that’s another argument for another day. (Buy local!)

But hey, don’t take my word on any of this. I’m just a nut with an internet connection. Daniel Benjamin, on the other hand, is a professor at Clemson and a senior associate at the Property & Environment Research Center. You can read his “Eight Great Myths About Waste Disposal” here: http://www.perc.org/perc.php?subsection=5&id=224

[DavidT]

I do buy my tree from a Christmas tree farm. I tend to think about what the land would be used for if it was not a tree farm. I guess ideally it could be used to grow local produce, but in reality the demand is not there.

If I thought the land would be allowed to grow back into a forest it would also be a deterrent against cutting down a tree. A tree farm, either for Christmas trees or for paper is not a forest. They plant some hybrid tree designed to be used for paper and is about as natural as any other large agribusiness.

As far as cutting down a tree in the forest, something will grow back in its place. Nature if left alone will generally take care of itself.

[Capntrips]

Hey, thanks everyone for your input on this dilemma I've been pondering/wrestling with! Faegirl, that sounds like a great idea, may have to give that a go next year. And YMU--I ALWAYS take your word for stuff, because you're a pretty legit dude:wink:...but I will check out the link you provided. Had NO idea about the "cons" of the recycling process....damnnn...take about the road to hell being paved with good intentions.....anyway, I loved reading everyone's posts!

And btw, YMU--just thought you'd like to know I finally broke down and bought a bar of LYE SOAP recently, just to see if it'll be any sort of useful. So far...well, can't say much for the scent, but we'll see what happens...;).

Hope everyone has a great Christmas, and your shopping is almost done! I'm allmooosttt there....I hate malls....:P LOL

[pgkzo]

oH my gosh - sorry but that entry on paper/trees/recycling is way misleading and not inflammatory, but just wrong and 1/2!! sorry man, but when i get the time i am going to take many of the points you make apart, then i am going to shred them and recycle them!!!!

hey capn', did you ever get the email i sent you thru the cup and string network, or did i get spammed out (or scrappled here in pennsylvania)?? let me know; if you didn't i would be glad to try to bore you to tears again...and i have more good news for you too...

i can't wait to trash your entry youmeus!!!! (in a good natured but still very serious way, so don't get mad)...so brace yourself!!

[YouMeUs]

It's been far too quiet for far too long 'round here. Bring it on! :tongue:

Provoke thought! Question everything!